Interview with SS Das Reich Division volunteers republished by the Renegade Tribune
Q. Can I ask why you chose the SS as the Branch to enlist into?
A. Guess it was easy to call yourself an SS man back then, today you must be quiet about it. It all seems so long ago but in my mind I remember it like yesterday. I chose the SS because it was known to have rough and tough fighters in the ranks, the best of the SA went to the SS. It was very hard to get in. Only the best blood of the Reich could serve early on. Later in the war they took most anyone. I was in the early SS and wore the black uniform. It had much prestige in those days. The SS was for me a way to get into life as a soldier, which would offer great rewards after my service time.
My comrades had varying reasons, some did so because of national socialism, some admired Hitler and Himmler, and others saw it as a means to move up. As I said it was not a bad thing to belong to the SS then. It had great rewards. The SS was seen as the party’s Army and we wanted to serve our nation. In a very tough and Elite Branch we trained much like the Army did but ours was more for parades and guard duties. Some served as guards for the high leaders.Iif one wanted to be the best of the best back then you applied to and successfully entered into the SS. I compare this to the old Kaiser’s mounted lifeguards who wore black and guarded the Kaiser. Once the war started our training was more military like and it involved tactics and equipment training. I was chosen to go to train on mobile artillery guns.
Q. You served in the War, what was it like for you?
A. Boy, war is not something to be admired and enjoyed. It was dirty, painful, and miserable. I was lucky to have such good comrades to help ease the misery. We lived most times outdoors, even in Winter. There was death at every turn and you had to be on watch at all times. It scared men who to this day have nightmares about it. It was not a nice thing to see or live through. While it is good to remember the men who fell and fought, war is not glamorous. I saw a comrade get cut in half by an anti-tank shell. It was a useless waste of life. When you look around and see a foot, head, or guts laying in front of you, it is sickening and revolting, War is the greatest waste of life and energy that exists today, yet men keep repeating it. I hope for your generation to never see what we saw. To never know the loss of a comrade or family member.
Q. You won the German Cross in Gold. Please tell me what is this award?
A. It is a high award for bravery or leadership that was made available to all ranks in the German military. If you won the Iron Cross first class, and again achieved a high level of leadership or Personal Achievement, you could be awarded this. I do not have mine here, but it is a big and bulky award that because of this came in cloth. Many of us in the armored Branch wore this version early on. We could see having many decorations meant always losing them while entering and exiting a Panzer. You would see scratching and dents on the awards. For men in the armor Branch you would have to enter and exit very quickly at times and heads hands and everything else could get quite banged up. Wearing the German Cross in gold brought instant respect from everyone, since it was very few who wore this award. The Americans called it the fried egg, for what reason I have no idea. It made no sense but it stuck.
Q. Can I ask what you did to be awarded the German Cross in Gold?
A. Very well. I was in the two SS Panzer Division Das Reich specifically in Panzer Jager Regiment 2 Third company. We had the assault gun, the one with the long barrel which was effective against most all armor. My crew was very good at picking off Russian armor. We had a low profile so we could hide easily. The gun sat very low as it had no turret like a regular Panzer, so we could move the gun only slightly. We had very good optics and radios, so we could see and pinpoint the enemy quickly and effectively. Most of the time we could see them before they saw us, which was a good thing. My crew did very well and because of our kills and my leadership I was put in for the award, which was approved in June 1944, just before the invasion front. I will state my crew made that award possible they received the Iron Cross for their work. It was a high honor for a crew leader to wear the award, it was just short of the knight’s cross. We were important in stopping many breakthroughs by the Russians and repulsing their attack. I still to this day hear the crack of the cannon when firing and seeing the smoke rise from our victims. It was either them or us, and we shot first.
Q. Can I ask how you feel about the SS being called criminals?
A. I cannot speak for all the men who served in the ranks of the Waffen SS, but I will state I took part in no crimes, and neither did my comrades. Now with that said, I find no joy in knowing we forced people to supply food and quarters. This was done in the east and west. We had to enter a town and find a place to stay. Many times the orders went out that the people would have to let us stay with them if only in a barn or stalls. We would move our guns up under cover and rest for the night. In the west we had much better lodging and our guns stayed in barracks. They say today that we shot down people for no reason, but that is not true. We faced a bad war in the rear lines and when caught, these saboteurs were arrested and at times executed. While there was no joy in this, it was war, and had to be done to stop further attacks. We did not go and randomly pick people to shoot. They had to do something bad to face our retaliation. And so for the camps we had nothing to do with those, and I’m angered when we are compared to the camps. We were not guards who wore the death’s head on their collars. We were merely soldiers who went to war because our nation called us to arms. In the end they treated us like criminals, and not one of us deserved it. We believed the Western allies were going to join with us to fight Stalin, but instead they arrested us and treated us like criminals. I never understood that. We were soldiers who served our nation and did nothing wrong.
Q. What did you think of the Russian people? Did you like them?
A. I had nothing for them or against them. They were people like us. The bugs and mosquitoes were the real enemy. They were very bad in places during the summer months. The people were mostly glad to see us, as they had it bad under Stalin. Can you imagine they greeted us with flowers and bread? We would come into a rail head and all the children would rush the trains to sell trinkets or shine boots. I was surprised to see restaurants open in the large cities they rebuilt like no war was going on. In Kiev they had many outside markets like in peacetime where you could buy food or goods. We had to stay with civilians in many instances and we always treated them well, offering food and cigarettes for their hospitality. Once I remember we parked the gun and hid it then went to eat. The farmer brought us explosives he found after the Russian retreat. He asked if we could show him how to use them to bring down some trees. Our gunner went out and set them up, letting the farmer detonate them. These were high-grade explosives and they threw one of the big trees on our gun from 40 m away, crushing his barn. It took great effort to remove the tree and fix the damage.
I know the people would bring in their sick and wounded to SS field hospitals. I was in one where a man brought his sick child. Our doctors sat her in the bed next to mine. She had worms and they flushed them out. I point this out, as we were not bad to the people, and we were not at war with them. We fought only to stop the spread of bolshevism and protect Europe from this danger. We had to fight England, which no one wanted to do.
We continue with the interview made to obersturmfuhrer Fritz Lanker.
Q. I like to ask what attracted men to join the SS? Can you tell me about the attraction you had?
A. Yes for me the SS was a new way of thinking, combined with our old traditions. I came from a very traditional German family, and I had a deep respect for the old ways. The SS was seen as the pride of the nation where only the best Germans were accepted. I wanted to be seen as being a member of this special group of men who were the standard bearers of the new era. I joined the Jung volk, then Hitler Jugand, then did my time in the reichs arbites de. All this bolstered my view of these Elite men of the National Socialist movement. The SS was the next step on the land. To join the SS you had to be in the best possible shape physically and mentally. The entrance exams took all day to do as it encompassed mental and physical tests. There were many stations set up so that a doctor could evaluate you. You had to attest that your genealogy went back at least 200 years of Germanic blood. This was done to make sure no one entered who was not a native born German of the original Germanic people. I believe that I heard a statistic that said only one in 10 who applied were accepted. Every everyone rich or poor was welcomed into the SS. If you had the aptitude there was no class structure, everyone was equal and were treated as equals. The generals often ate with the privates, which was unheard of in the past.
Q. What were the early years like for you in the SS?
A. I was accepted into the Germania regiment 10th company and my training was much like the military our leaders envisioned. A force dedicated strictly to the party like the praetorian guard of Rome. We had no Army support as they were opposed to us existing. Himmler had to use SS funds to buy equipment and weapons. I spent all of 1937 training and then in March 1938 Germania was part of the forces welcomed by the Austrians. It was something. Thousands of people cheered us as we marched in. A very big lie told today is that they did not want us there. I was there and everyone came out to greet us and thank us for freeing their land. Later in October we marched into Czechoslovakia, this time we thought it might be tougher but again everywhere people came out to welcome us. The German minority was persecuted and very happy to be liberated. the average check came out to see us. I could tell they were slightly nervous about what would happen. But many offered us warm coffee and snack cakes. For 1939 we trained and were used as occupation troops, which for us meant having to help with the harvests or aiding the widow to clean her yard. Our leaders always wanted us to make a good impression on all people. An older married SS man was kicked out when he had relations with a Czech woman, and she became pregnant. He supposedly told her he wanted nothing to do with her and that Germans were only here to conquer the women. There may be more to it but the point I want to make is that we were very respectful wherever we were. If we were not you would get a lot of trouble coming your way. Another story I can share is a comrade in my company borrowed a bike to chase after a girl he saw on a tram. He dented the rim and tried to return it to the owner. After our ordered him to buy the man not only a new bike but also a better model.
Q. What was the mood like when War started in 1939?
A. Strangely for us there was no bravado, no cheering and no talk of revenge. We were muted and concerned that our nation was going to war again. We did understand that due to Polish refusal to stop border incursions, killing of Germans inside Poland, and harassment of the German minority, we had to step in to solve the problem. The British Declaration was unnecessary and uncalled for. It only proved the fuhrer’s claim that plutocrats wanted war to fix their rotten nations. I found that the Poles were tough fighters. When part of the Germania got a bloody nose at jao, the poles beat our company with a division that was well-led and caused us heavy casualties. Some of our troops fled leaving much equipment behind. Germania held out but suffered very heavy casualties before being overrun. We were green and had no fighting experience. The thinking was we needed to learn and what better way than to go into the fire.
This paid off later in the war as we were much more experienced in Allied tactics and had our battle baptism. We also learned to trust our comrades with our lives. It was with relief that Poland fell so quickly. Their army was large and well equipped, some divisions were better equipped than German ones. We went to work rebuilding and reorganizing so that we would be better prepared for the Western allies. I saw our panzers in action and decided that I would like to be a part of this Elite group.
Q. Did you ever meet Reich fuhrer SS Himmler or any High leaders?
A. Yes of course. Being an early member of the SS it was common to see Reichsführer SS Himmler and others. We many parade and honor functions though not as many as the leibstandarte who were used primarily for State service. Reichsfuhrer SS Himmler would often pay for fine dinner parties and dances for us. We had many parties at our barracks where we went to great lengths to invite the pretty girls. During the war we would receive visits from Reichs fuhrer SS Himmler or his aids who would bring greetings and gifts from home for the troops. I always was impressed at how well he stayed in touch with his units, always making sure our needs were being met.
Q. Both at the front and at home was there really animosity between the SS and the Wehrmacht?
A. Yes there was. There did not need to be but the Wehrmacht was very jealous of a private Army within the National Socialist state. In the beginning they did not want to help us in any way. Arms had to be bought with SS funds and they refused to train with us. Many senior leaders were stuck in the old days where there was no room for new thinking we were loyal to the fuhrer and the new era he was creating while the wehrmacht was still stuck in Old Prussian Times. Lucky for us some very good ex wehrmacht leaders came to us and trained us up to be the most elite soldiers Germany has ever had. When War started we were criticized by some army officers. We made mistakes early on but learned from them and got better and better. By War’s end we were saving Wehrmacht units from destruction and small SS battle groups were holding off whole divisions of the enemy. I would say by 1943 the Waffen SS was superior to the average wehrmacht unit. We were better trained, armed and motivated. We believed in what we were fighting for, where most of the wehrmacht was drafted and only yearned for home. I say this not to insult my comrades. Most all who served our nation did so with honor and bravery regardless of branch, but SS men had a deeper sense of what we were fighting for. The wehrmacht fought for Germany. We also did but more so for a brighter world for all, in which national socialism was allow owed to flourish, to show man a brighter future.
Q. You fought in Normandy against the Western allies. What was your experience like and how did you view the Western allies?
A. I did not find much difference between the Allies. Many Germans say the Western allies were more European and thus treated us better than the Russians, but I disagree. I saw the aftermath of war crimes in Normandy as much as in Russia. Allied propaganda inflamed both civilians and soldiers to believe we were all killers of innocence and when the shooting started the Allies felt they were on a holy crusade to wipe out the “Nazi Scourge,” and in France the bandits joined in led by allied operatives. Allied soldiers killed surrendered Germans in many instances from the beginning.The Hitler Jugend division had a hospital attacked in which Canadians were responsible. I have nothing against the allies and wish they had had better leaders who would see the war for what it was, the destruction of Europeans. But the acts of cruelty they committed are unforgivable, more so since they lied about them. On the Eastern Front the Russians were loose and undisciplined. Many times however there was still a sense of Honor in many units. When Das Reich was at KK there was a lull where a Russian Captain was shot and our medics were treating him under a white flag. His assistant came out with an interpreter and asked if they could trade him for a wounded officer they had. The Germans said he was well cared for by the enemy and given a small bottle of vodka to share with us. This happened more than historians care to research.
The Russians are always accused of being barbarians but I did not find that to be the case. Their jewish political officers were a different story however and the crimes at the war’s end were horrible. We stand accused of being very cruel and hateful towards the Russians. This was not true either. We treated them well and that is why so many aided us. The homeland often complained about all the Russian prisoners who were allowed to work freely in the fields and felt they were invading them. The Allies in Normandy left a very bad impression on me. They strafed anything moving, many times killing French civilians. They shelled areas without proper scouting, killing many civilians, and were more shoot first see what they were shooting at later. According to some French I have stayed in contact with, the Allies killed so many French civilians that they never want to be liberated again.
Q. You won the Knights cross because of your leadership in Normandy. How did this happen?
A. Normandy was a very hard fight for us. The Allies controlled the air and made movement very hard for our panzers, even our march to Normandy was hard, as they used Bandits and Commandos to slow us. Das Reich came to the battle after it was already too late and we could not advance far due to the firepower that the Allies could bring to bear on us. Hundreds of ships guns and artillery batteries that made it ashore met any thrust to the beach. We fought mostly a defensive battle trying to contain the Allies. We were outnumbered and without control of the air had no real Mobility. Our units did an exemplary job of working together and fighting bravely, even when all hope was lost. This is where I won my Knight’s cross. I was in a large group that had been surrounded, and many of the wehrmacht units had just abandoned their vehicles and equipment, trying to sneak out on foot, but were captured. We had an American prisoner who laid out the defensive line. I did not want to be captured as I knew what might happen so I gathered a few Panthers and found more armor who joined us. I advised officers of my plan. Everyone ended up following me and then we rode off and punched a hole in the enemy. They were prepared for this but the guns of the Panthers spoke loud and silenced all opposition, knocking out many Shermans. This raggedy group turned into a wild battle group and fought a superior enemy, seizing vital bridges before they could be blown. For me this was just a natural will to survive. I was surprised when told the knight’s cross was being awarded.
Q. One cannot talk about the Waffen SS without getting into the atrocities you are accused of committing. May I ask your opinion of the Allied claims?
A. If we must young man, but I must be careful. You mention oror Su glain. I know it well as my division was involved. I can State clearly to you that this was no atrocity. It was a reprisal against murderous bandits that went wrong. Most do not know what happened to us and our comrades at the hands of these bandits. All they have been told is that SS men, for no reason, killed men women and children. The unit involved had been in hard fights, with bandits suffering deaths at the hands of people who never should have been fighting.Tthese men had mothers, wives, and children. Some were found horribly mutilated. I never understood what makes people so depraved to torture a soldier who has surrendered. We found Waffen SS and medical people who among the worst acts had been set on fire while alive. A man who later fell in Normandy took photos of them as proof but never had a chance to develop them. Idor was a town where many communists from all over Europe had settled. To avoid occupation, the Allies tapped into this willing mob, urging them to action. The Allies armed them, trained them and paid them but they were civilians. An officer had been captured and held for ransom which was very common. We did the same thing, so that we could do exchanges. This time was different. The officer going to seek his return found he had been killed and saw an ambulance that had been attacked with everyone killed. He saw that even the women and children wore the armbands of the bandits, showing they were under their control. Other units were brought up to find out who was responsible. Everyone was put in the church while the village was searched. They found many weapons, explosives, and money, and as people started talking they began betraying the leaders, who were brought out and interrogated. Later on the people in the church heard the shots of the leaders being executed. It is surmised someone in the church tried to get at hidden weapons, triggered explosives, and set the church on fire.
Q. Thank you for agreeing to meet me. We spoke about what questions I wanted to ask. So first, what attracted you to join the Waffen SS?
A. When I volunteered for service in the SS, it was not called the Waffen SS, but special Duty troops. I hailed from farmers who absolutely adored the land. The idea of blood and soil are what every German farm family held dear for centuries. My father was a very early supporter, so it was only natural I should have the same interest. I joined the Hitler Youth, cared for horses while also working on the farm, and then did my Reich service by 1939. I made up my mind to join the SS to fulfill military service requirements for me. The SS was a way to show loyalty to Germany and it was the bodyguards to the fuhrer. SS men also guarded the sacred National Socialist sites around Germany. I felt very proud to don the black tunic of an elite guard. The training was very hard. I actually liked it very much. In the SS there was very little complaining as we all volunteered for what we were doing. There were very few dropouts, mostly from mama’s boys. Heavy drinkers who could not handle the healthy lifestyle had problems too. Drinking and smoking were heavily frowned upon.
Q. What was it like serving in the RAD?
A. The rad was something the fuhrer did not create, but he championed as a form of unity under German law. Every able young man and woman would serve 6 months. We could be sent anywhere in the Reich, but most were stationed close to home to be able to see family. Most of the work I did was working on revitalizing German beaches and waterways which had been neglected after the first war. The fuhrer was the first leader to address the environment. The greens think they are the first party to help the land, but they are wrong. There were stagnant bodies of water that we rebuilt to bring fresh life to wetlands, and planted many trees to help with erosion. German industry was also coming up with ways to clean up pollution from coal mines and plants which polluted the nearby water. Since I was raised on the land I learned to have great respect for nature and National Socialist Germany is the only nation in history to try to repair the damage humans have caused. There were even organization branches to help the animals recover from over hunting. Some of my family were not happy at laws that introduced fees to hunt non-destructive animals, deer, boar and foxes could wreak havoc on farmers, so these were allowed, but other species had bag limits and higher fees that went toward helping them multiply. My father had a prized gun collection of rifles and shotguns to help him bag good trophies. The rad was so successful that many nations, including yours, created their own versions. Our example was designed to build trust and form respect for all Germans, regardless of status. The wealthy worked with the poor. There was no class structure and we all got dirty together. In my troop we had a much esteemed member of the Seaman’s family and he may not have exactly enjoyed it all, but he got to see what real labor is all about, and left with a respect that only those who go through this can understand.
Q. You were part of the war with Poland. What was your experience and how did you view the Polish people?
A.Yes, the war with Poland was unfortunate, but also inevitable. I would say most Germans before the war saw Poland as an ex subject. We ruled over the poles for a long time along with Russia. I believe we treated them well but they also had a minority who wanted to be an independent state. After the first war, that became a reality, but it also over emboldened the government. The Reds attacked them and they miraculously beat the Reds back, but they attacked our borders to take more land away by force. This went on until the 1930s. AR frore stopped this and it planted the seed of hate. Many poles felt we owed them and looked upon Germany as a bully whose time had come. The fuhrer had one main plan, to reunite lost lands. He was very successful in this promise, but the English did not want a revived Germany, so they used Poland as an excuse to start a new war. My Government tried to work out very reasonable deals with Poland. All of them were refused at England’s demand. You add to this the plight of Germans in Poland, who due to the tension were being harassed, persecuted, and killed (56,000), so Germany had to act. By September 1939, I was a machine gunner in the Germania regiment. Poland was expecting war and was prepared for us. When we crossed the border they had offensive postures. Our Luftwaffe outclassed the Polish Air Force, and paved the way for the ground units. I saw our panzers for the first time, and was quite impressed, which held an attraction for me for the rest of the war. The poles however had better armor, and knocked out a good amount. They were supplied with German ww1 weapons, French and English tanks, and American trucks. I found the soldiers to be very agreeable. We often joked with them that they were headed towards Berlin but not how they envisioned it. We allowed their officers dignified surrenders, and had orders to treat them with respect. There were some who were guilty of atrocities against the civilians, and they had to be investigated, but many were processed and released to go home after a few weeks. Polish civilians were well behaved, giving us very few problems. Many would bring food to sell to us which since our rations were sometimes meager, was appreciated. A few SS units had some problems in combat. We had been issued old and foreign weapons that hindered our ability to engage the enemy properly. I understand that old army officers have criticized the SS, but they issued us inferior weapons. They threw us into battle knowing we would have problems with poor equipment. Overall we did very well against a larger army with better equipment.
Q. You fought in the west against the English and French. What was your experience?
A. The SS was on the north wing of the attack. We walked into Holland uninvited, but the Dutch did make it clear they sided with the Allies, so they were de facto an enemy. They mainly put up symbolic fights, and gave up easily. Lucky for us we did not see heavy fighting until Belgium and France. By then the Allies knew they fell into a trap, so they tried to break out, but failed. We pushed them into the dunkirk pocket, and then were ordered to stop. The fuhrer had his reasons, which many of us believe was to show he wanted to offer peace to a beaten foe. By now we had lots of confidence in our leaders and weapons. Our panzers broke the enemy open, but they had better armor than we did. Only the Panzer four could take them on. We guarded many English and French prisoners, and would spend hours talking to them when we could. No one could understand why it came to war again as they seemed like brothers. The civilians were fleeing from the battles and we had to deal with feeding them and helping them, which slowed us down sometimes, and made officers angry. I remember our surgeon had to help deliver a baby with the sounds of battle close by. We enjoyed the weather immensely, getting sun tans when we could. Some men were very active in pursuing French girls, who flirted. Nonstop orders had to be issued on relationship rules, and not pursuing married women, especially wives of prisoners of war.
Q. How did you come to the Panzer arm of the Waffen SS?
A. My division Das Reich was active on the Eastern front and I had been wounded, which put me in the hospital with a fellow from a Panzer regiment. We talked a lot and I would write my then girlfriend Charlotte about this branch, which had black uniforms. She thought I would look handsome in it, therefore I had to look handsome for her, so I set my mind on the Panzer arm. I had been promoted to an NCO and was assigned to help train new Dutch recruits who were joining our fight against jewish bolshevism. While it was very rewarding to work with these comrades, the panzers still called out to me. I always live by the phrase that every soldier has a duty to his Fatherland and its people, even if that duty means death. Therefore, even though the Panzer arm was dangerous and with good chances to be killed, I jumped when offered a spot in Panzer School. Thus Das Reich was expanded and getting better panzers. I was a wounded combat veteran with the Iron Cross, so I fit right into this Branch, Our instructors were Panzer veterans with a lot of combat experience to pass on. We trained mainly on the Panzer 2 and Panzer three and focused on tank on tank tactics, staying organized, and communicating. We learned each role on a Panzer so anyone could fill in for a wounded comrade. By the time training was finished the situation on the Eastern Front was in the balance. I was a assigned to a Panzer 3 long barrel just in time to retake karkhov. I remember it was very cold and thankfully the Panzer engine offered us some heat. This is where the first successes came, knocking out anti-tank gun strong points and armored vehicles. We did have to go against the T34 which could easily knock us out, but we had better tactics and defeated units much larger than us. I was very happy when I had the chance to become a commander on a panzer which took me back to school again. I was able to spend a lot of time with Charlotte and do some traveling, which still went on in wartime.
Q. You fought in Normandy and won the knight’s cross. Can you describe what the battle was like and how you won the award?
A. I was still with the 2nd Panzer Regiment and after heavy action in Russia we were sent to France to refit and stand battle, ready to defeat the invasion. We knew what was coming. The weather was great so we had a lot of time to train. Charlotte came to visit often and we began to talk about marriage in the summer. A French girl was not happy to hear of this. I told her we can still be friends but she needed more and took a comrade as her new infatuation. When the invasion was announced our Panzer regiment was ordered to move north, which was a nightmare. Trains were attacked, even passenger ones, bombers and resistance cells blew bridges with Allied agents working with them. My division had trouble with these people, which caused much hatred due to the reprisal. We arrived in Normandy too late to turn the tide. The Allies already had a numerical superiority over us and controlled the air. We had to move mostly at night. We learned to camouflage everything and I mean everything. The American fighter bombers hit anything they thought looked German. German strategy was to hold a very strong defensive line and blunt any Allied attacks. We did this well for two months, but slowly gave ground, and had a hard time retaking it. Our Panthers could knock out any Allied tank. The problem was they had what seemed like an unlimited supply to draw from. The panther still had a few teething troubles that were very aggravating. I learned to hide in ambush, knock the lead tank out, and if possible, the last vehicle to seal them in. They always called in air support whenever we held them up, which was not as effective as they claim, but it did disrupt us and allow enemy escapes. During the fights in Normandy, we fought very hard and the Allies learned to respect soldiers of the SS. However, because of our prowess it also caused overreaction and crimes to be committed against surrendering SS soldiers. We fought like lions and the Allies wanted revenge for fallen friends. Some claim orders were given by a few units to not take SS prisoners, which in turn SS units facing them had to follow suit in order to stop it. I never saw this and we treated our prisoners as we would want to be treated. There were a couple times my Panzer was cut off and we had to navigate back to our lines, sometimes on foot. I would see enemy soldiers but dare not engage them, as they were doing their business with no weapons.
As to the incident that brought me the nights cross, I was with a detached formation that was a mix of SS and Wehrmacht that had been beaten back in an offensive. I was alone and scouting roads to villages when, I happened to stop by a large group of trees that gave excellent cover. I heard shooting in the distance and ordered some men to go forward to scout. They came back yelling it was the allies coming. I could hear engines, so I ordered to prepare for action and turned the turret toward the bend in the road. Soon they appeared, we opened fire on the lead tank knocking it out, then soon after another rounded the corner. This was an advanced guard for an attack on a nearby village. We had been well supplied so I had the ability to hold them up to allow for reinforcements or so I hoped. As usual they stopped and called in air attacks that damaged us, but they also could not move and were afraid to advance. When they tried again we knocked out a truck or armored car, I cannot remember. We held them in our crosshairs as long as we could repairing the damage, and then withdrawing for fear of being surprised. This action allowed for new defenses and evacuations. We were greeted as heroes, but this action was just our duty, and taking advantage of cover. Recently a Frenchman who studies panzers came to speak to me and said the allies said this never happened. I do not understand why. War is confusing. Losses are easy to miss and numbers do not always add up in the fog of War. I saw Sherman tanks that we knocked out, but if not they were still tanks and we held up an advance. There is no way I could be mistaken about that, and my crew saw the same thing I did. I have learned that just because the Allies say something happened, does not make it true.
I was put up for the award and presented with it later on, but let me tell you the best part was getting a long leave to wed my fiance. I had been looking forward to this for a long time. She even teased me by having a girlfriend take pictures of her in undergarments she bought in France for the honeymoon. You have a pretty girl, so you understand English soldiers stole these pictures and letters she wrote to me when I was captured. These men were not the same enemy I met in France in 1940. These men were drunk on propaganda and hate, and I saw them beat many soldiers, some just young boys.
Q. How do you feel about the SS being labeled a criminal organization?
A. The (judeo)Allies won the war, they get to say anything they want, make any rule, and tell any story that they want. I refuse to discuss this topic as it gets one in trouble, as they have sent moles to us. But I will tell you the Allies lie. They deliberately bombed civilians to kill as many as they could. They raped women on a scale that has never happened in history in Germany and all over Europe. They hunted down anyone who was a party member and put them in concentration camps while shouting how evil it was to put people in camps. They made villains into heroes and heroes into villains. They are complete hypocrites with their policies. They killed spies but we are criminals for doing the same. They hang traitors and saboteurs, yet we are criminals for the same actions. They went house to house to loot any books and had huge bonfires to burn them. We burned anti-german smut and communist propaganda, yet we are evil. They even burned old family bibles that held generations of history. We could do nothing to stop this, and if one tried, they were killed or sent away permanently. They hung a relative of mine whom the red say was a murdering camp guard. They claimed these camps were built to kill. She was barely 24, and the prettiest girl in town. She applied for work with the SS and was not technically a guard but more of a helper in a women’s camp. She told me once during my wedding reception that she liked being able to help reform women who were caught up in bad situations. Some were criminals, part of gangs that were caught. Some were resistance members serving sentences for sabotage, and others black marketers. She would never hurt anyone. One could see that in her eyes. I do not believe for one second any of the tales told by the “liars” who were sent to these camps. I will tell you very few say it was bad. Also of course the ones who defend us are shut up. Yet the vengeful winners made her out to be cruel and soulless. Lies of hateful people killed her. They did this with the Waffen SS. We fought for our country with honor and fought a satanic enemy that made us all pay at War’s end.
What they did to Germany and our people will never be forgotten or forgiven. I want you to take the words I have told you and make sure you tell people what we survived. We were not soldiers of an evil cause or leader, but men who were forced into a war against heartless enemies who now cry out in pain as they strike us. Your aunt has been a great help to try to correct some of this, but we face a mounting challenge that is only getting harder after each year. Cries from jewish groups are loud, and since they own in the world’s communications they are very successful in spreading history as they want it told. Soon it will be illegal to defend any actions of German soldiers.
We continue with the interview tonight with Cross winner KL Hein boser SS obertor furer and agitant of the two SS panzer division. Des it is nice meeting you finally as discussed. I would like to ask you a few questions regarding your service.
Q. My first one is, why did you choose the SS as the branch to serve in?
A. Yes indeed my American friend, as you request. I started my career in the Hitler Youth here in Keel, running all over this city from an early age. We were taught the highest deed a citizen can give is his service to the people. This came in the form of military service reiches arbites, the state service. It was drilled into us to give ourselves to Germany and our people. A slogan we use to say is, you are nothing but your people are everything. In it meant to take away the selfish attitudes and make one appreciate everyone in our nation, regardless of class. The very poor child was just as deserving of a chance as a wealthy one. From the Hitler Youth I was selected to attend the very prestigious National politi erong analon School in plon. These were hard to get into. They prepared one for State service or to achieve leadership positions within the party. You could easily get into the SS with a diploma from one of these schools. I’d seen the SS men marching in parades and doing special guard duty and thought, I should be a part of this Elite group of men.
I had instructors at school that held SS memberships and of course they sang the praises of the SS, making me more interested. I spoke to a recruiter and applied for admission. I was very happy to be selected after my schooling. I was placed into the ssvt and started training as a soldier in the military arm of the SS. It was the natural path for someone like me. I was a believer in the movement and wanted to be a part of something special. The SS was very hard to get into. Only the best in Germany were ever accepted, until the war started.
Q. How did you feel when war was declared?
A. Well, we did not declare war. That was the English and French. We launched an attack on Poland to stop the border incursions that they vehemently say never happened. I knew people who were victims of these attacks by criminals, and I know they are not lying. As far as how I felt I must confess I was a little anxious, as many of us felt Germany was treated very very unfairly after the first war. We had large chunks of land taken, which included a few million Germans. We wanted it back and a chance to regain our status as a European leader. Of course no one else in Europe wanted this, but it was fair to have an equal footing for all nations, not just the winners of the war. Polish arrogance and hatred, which culminated with mistreatment of Germans stuck in Poland, and border attacks, Germany could not stand by and let this happen. No Nation would. I would read that Germans who were driving from the Reich into Prussia would sometimes be attacked by bandits and robbed, yet the police would do nothing. They acted as if they deserved it. I remember hearing of a family who was murdered because they tried returning to their seized home to collect some heirlooms. You could say many Germans of my time did not care to have a war with England, but for Poland and France there was anger that only War could solve. Many were glad we were going after Poland. It was an act of revenge for the 20 years of Polish attacks on German territory citizens and culture.
Q. I understand you served in the ssvt during the French campaign. How did you come to be a Panzer Soldier?
A. Yes, I was first in the motorcycle reconnaissance for the French battles. We scouted out the roads and terrain ahead of our unit so they could advance. We were often the first ones to see and be seen by the enemy, and we had high loss rates in the beginning. Once with my comrades we rounded a tight bend and went smack into a French anti-tank trap. They opened up on us with all barrels we had to use the Luftwaffe to to silence the defenders, but I was lucky to have escaped that one. I should have stopped when I saw a blue-coated soldier running in the woods, but I was very inexperienced. Then another time we came into a town with white flags everywhere, and the French opened fire on us. These were negro troops who had no discipline. In spite of this branch being very dangerous, it had a special Spirit. We felt free while riding. We worked at our own pace and could go very slow or very fast. We were the first to make contact with civilians who would give us looks, but were mostly friendly. We were a group of men who feared nothing and liked excitement at a high level. This is why when the Reich division was formed, they plucked many of us to go to Panzer school. I was eager to go as I had marveled at the panzers dashing through Poland and in France. We were able to exchange our field gray uniforms for black. We looked magnificent. The girls certainly gave us double looks as well. The black stood out as Elite: bold, daring, and dashing. You add on the SE grunin and Totenkopf and it was the best uniform of the whole War. I remember sitting in my first Panzer. It was a Panzer 2.0, and very cramped. By 1941 we had the Panzer 3 in which I was better at defeating enemy tanks which were much better than our early panzers.
Q. You won the knight’s cross for service on the Russian front. Can I ask under what circumstances you were awarded this High award?
A. I was with the sixth company of SS Panzer regiment. At this time we were guarding the flanks of wehrmacht units, and I wanted to take a few panzers out to train, and also look around. At this time I saw through my glasses many Ivans moving into attack positions directly facing hq, which no one seemed to notice. I knew we had to do something, even without our infantry, so I ordered a forward march, and we charged into the mass of attackers like Knights of old. All barrels fired and became red hot. This alerted our comrades who came to life. We faced pak anti-tank guns and artillery, which were promptly knocked out, causing Ivan heavy losses. We kept up this attack until they were beaten back, then I ordered us to move into their front where we destroyed more pak fronts. The losses were very heavy. I saw dead everywhere and smoke from set off shells. If I remember there were over 300 dead that we counted, and many knocked out or captured guns. I remember seeing many prisoners too, who helped us plan a counterattack in a critical area later. I must tell you also our Medics,who were SS men, treated all the wounded without care of uniform. I saw one of my men give a blood transfusion to a badly wounded Russian who would have died. Otherwise we are not the bad guys the press says that we are. What might surprise you also is that we did all this in the Panzer which was not that heavily armed, compared to the Panther and Tiger, who could withstand most hits. Lucky for us, Ivan could not aim well. After this action Walter Krueger demanded I be put up for the award, and it came as a surprise to me, as I was only doing what a soldier does, looking for a chance to beat his enemy.
Q. Can I ask your opinion on the accusations regarding war crimes committed by the SS?
A. I do not put much belief in the many stories that the winners tell. They have had many years and many liars to work out their version of events. If and I stress if the SS did the terrible things that the enemy claims, I would be ashamed. I am a soldier, not a murderer, and would never stand for my men behaving that way. The Russians make very wild claims to the point of absurdity, yet German historians eat the stories up. The Western allies are slightly more reserved but still tell stories of us killing civilians and babies. I certainly never saw this and would have protested with the pistol. The worst thing I saw our forces do was execute bandits, who were caught after ambushing a Wehrmacht patrol, and the bandits killing them all in a beastial way. This bandits included a woman who was caught with the soldiers’ rings and wallets. They were all pronounced bandits, and promptly shot for the illegal murder of the soldiers. No one in their right mind would think of these despicable people as victims and heroes, yet we are forced to praise them. The poor boys they killed in cold blood get nothing but a letter home saying their grave is no longer known. The Soviets destroyed every German cemetery they could find. We did not do that to theirs. We took every practical action to show respect and to later make it easy for their dead to be identified. We did not make them lavish cemeteries like we did for our men, but we did show them respect. Perhaps we will be able to find these old locations and hopefully someday they may be restored to honor the countless soldiers who still lie in foreign soil. I am warmed to know that there are people who go looking for our missing, and every so often they find them. A few years ago, Michael Witman was found with his crew in Normandy. A Jabo got him in the end. He was a great Panzer Ace, who was an example to all of us. He was in a tiger and achieved a great score even against the Western allies, so be very careful about the war crime stories you hear about us. Many are just not true, and some are creations of very sick minds.
Q. How did the war end for you?
A. I was made a prisoner by the British. I must say I was treated fairly at War’s end. Many were ashamed at what they turned Germany into. I was fortunate enough to make the acquaintance of many of these types. One even shared with me in private he was with Oswald Mosley before the war. The SS was an enigma to our foes, and some really took an interest in learning the truth from us. Some did not care, and of course wartime propaganda ate them up. These types would abuse us, spit on us, and attack us. As you know, many Germans died after the war due to mistreatment and expulsions, so many did not have it good like me. I must admit I was punched a couple times but they were reprimanded. I found the British to be more our brothers than enemies. Himmler believed so as well. There were even some Brits who served in the SS, but that is kept quiet. I was angry that I was kept for a few years after the war, which was against the conventions. I was in the end just happy to survive when so many did not. I’m grateful the British did not abuse us, and actually were very gentlemanly when asking questions or seeking information. It is hard to look upon them as enemies, and it is sad that we had to fight fellow Europeans. As upright as the British wereperhaps they had a warmonger for a leader, who destroyed their empire. Britain is a shell of its former self, just as the Fuhrer said would happen.
We continue with the interview made to George kons, a Belgium volunteer of the Waffen SS. Thanks for letting me speak with you. As it was mentioned I would only like to ask a few questions about your time in the Waffen SS.
Q. Can I ask why you chose the Waffen SS?
A. Okay boy, I do not know you, but you know my comrade so I will indulge you for a bit. I will. Many of us, myself included, do not indulge reporters anymore. They are dishonest liars who serve their editors and not the truth. I have seen the stories written about our time and will not oblige in helping spread tales of fancy. You seem okay, so I can begin by saying I joined solely due to being patriotic. I saw a danger that existed in Europe from the Reds, and it still exists today. Only NATO keeps it at bay. We tried to defeat this threat but the West Was blind to what they were doing. They joined with this foe to defeat the one side who understood the danger. When Germany invaded Belgium, it was a most unwelcome act. However, there were some who understood they had to do this to defeat France. After all France and Britain were planning on invading us as well. Germany gave Belgium great terms for peace and then sent in massive help which was good. I was part of Flemish patriotic groups that loved our land and people, and the Germans were good to us. While we did not need German help, they set up our party as the leaders of our district. This was also good. They did this all over Europe, working with patriotic groups to set up new governments. I did not join the SS. Himmler came to Belgium and asked for the creation of a legion of men from Flanders. Many of us accepted and were joined into the legion. Upon passing exams from doctors and admissions, we were later joined into a regiment when war broke out with Russia. I was pushed into the SS due to events out of my control. The war in the East needed many men to fight and I volunteered to go. Since our Legion was created with the help of Himmler, he believed we also should be members of his SS. I agreed to this as I wanted to fight the Reds, and this was my ticket to go do it. The life was good, with good pay, food, and Equipment. But the best part for me was the comrades I was with. We all shared the same feelings and views, and had a common goal. Finally this regiment was asked to transfer over to a new SS Panzer division called Das Reich. We traded one cuff title for another.
Q. How were you treated by the Germans, since you were a foreigner?
A. I can tell you in Himmler’s world, we were not foreigners, and we were not treated as such. We had to travel through Germany to get to our training, and the people were very kind and came out to greet us at train stations. We wrote on the train cars various messages of who we were and where we were from. The girls loved it, and blew kisses and threw flowers to us. It felt as if we were again going on a crusade as our fathers of old did. To battle the enemy from the East. We felt back then as if all of Europe supported us and was behind us. At War’s end, these same people turned their backs on us. Even in training our treatment was excellent. I saw squabbles with Germans on who had the better football teams and better athletes, which sometimes spilled out into the exercise yard, but the SS was quick to point out we were brothers who were on the same side fighting the same common enemy. Remember that please. We were treated very well and as brothers you were awarded the honor roll clasp.
Q. Can I ask how you won this?
A. Well, all I will say to you that it was given for the final battles for Kharkov. Stalin wanted this large city back and there were three main battles that the SS was involved in. I was part of the third battle and was in the Panzer Regiment of Das Reich SS Panzer regiment 2 of the Sixth company. I was a driver on the Panzer 4 with the long barrel, the 7.5 cm cannon. I took my lessons to heart. I never missed a gear and got us moving quickly all the time. Speed and movement were what won the day in a Panzer battle. We had to aim fast, fire first and repeat. My commander always stressed this, and we took many Ivans from the fight. We had a good crew on our Panzer. We practically lived in our Panzer, and it was home, unless we stopped in a village to rest. Then we could stay with a family or in a barn. I remember the smell of the gun coupled with our sweat and stink in the summer. It was the worst. As in battle we had to have all hatches closed which made the temperature sometimes go very high. Fans did not help. Our loader would keep a bucket of water full for us to dip into if we needed, but many times we spilled it. It helped to have something to chew on like Straw or tobacco, to help ease thirst. Many awards were handed out for the battles around Kharkov. It was a hard battle with heavy losses but but we decimated Ivan.
Q. With regards to the Russian people, I have read relations were very bad, and many crimes committed. Can I ask if that is true?
A. If it is true, I did not see any of it. We were not fighting the Russian people. It was the Reds that had power over the people we wanted to defeat. As I said we stayed in many Russian Villages and towns. I can attest that life returned to pre-red Revolution times for the people. They came out to welcome us, as we had freed them from a tyranny that lasted 20 years. I saw the churches open again and free markets were allowed where they could sell items without having to give profits to the state. I know that welfare people came from all over Europe to work towards helping the people as best they could. Belgium even had a hand in this. I saw a train with donations for the Orthodox Church in the Kharkov region. Food was getting scarce and people were brought in to rebuild the factories that Stalin destroyed in scorched Earth. Food was a priority. We were even asked to help a farmer with his harvest during a lull in the fighting. There were also hospitals that were rebuilt and new ones built to give the people better care, and to aid the front. We had a nice repair depot that was rebuilt from a destroyed factory. All I saw in Russia were areas that were being renewed and reborn behind the front lines. I saw nothing that would give me any impression that the people were oppressed and harmed. The papers and others have claimed many were hung or shot, which is false. The only times this happened was if it was bandits (partisans), who attacked German forces illegally. I saw photos of this but luckily we were spared any major engagements until later in the war when they were absorbed into the Red Army. Then they were treated as a regular prisoners of War.
Q. What about the claims regarding crimes?
A. We are not going to talk about those. I told you they are not factual and based on hateful lies. I saw nothing that would make me ashamed to wear the uniform. My comrades all feel the same way. Every claim has turned out to be a lie, or overstated.
Q. Did you see any Russian prisoners?
A. Yes, of course. I took prisoners myself and searched them. I bet you did not know we had a few Russians in Das Reich. They settled in my area after the revolution when war was announced with red Russia. They flocked to join both the Wehrmacht and SS, to help us fight. One even met a person from his village, and he was kept as a Hy for us. These hwis were Russian prisoners who were fed up with Stalin and asked to help us in a non-combat that way. They could help cook, work on uniforms or equipment, and be drivers for wounded. We called 1 d as we could not pronounce his name. We had nearly a hundred of these men in our regiment. I have read they were all shot by the Reds at War’s end if they were caught. I remember seeing all the vast columns of prisoners that were taken. There had to be thousands upon thousands. Many of these same men then joined the free army of Russia and turned to fight the Reds. We had to save them a few times from being overrun later in the war.
Q. Do you have any regrets in being a part of the German Waffen SS?
A. None at all boy. As I said, we have nothing to be ashamed about, and I am very proud of being a part of a group of men who were united as never before. We fought as one against an enemy that said they wanted to bring peace and fairness to the world. In truth they brought hateful retribution and fear to those who really did not want this idea. I saw what they did to the people in Russia. And woe to anyone who helped us once we came into a village we retook a month after it fell. It was empty. We later found out they either killed or deported to the east those who stayed behind. A girl told us there was a trench not far away where the adults were taken and shot for giving aid to the Germans. So the only regret I have boy, is that we did not win that damned War. It was a war for the very last breath of a healthy European survival, free from the red poison. The world joined to defeat our cause and now generations must face the price.